After Tiffany Haddish achieved mainstream success with her outlandish performance in 2017’s hit comedy “Girls Trip,” she was determined to strike while the iron was hot — and she has never stopped striking. Since that film came out, Haddish has published a best-selling memoir; starred in eight films (and appeared in a bunch more), as well as the sitcom “The Last O.G.”; released the Netflix comedy special “Black Mitzvah”; and started the talk show “Friday Night Vibes.” Given her professional voraciousness, it was probably inevitable that Haddish would try her hand at heavy drama, which is what she has now done by co-starring alongside Oscar Isaac in “The Card Counter,” written and directed by that legendary cinematic examiner of guilt and expiation Paul Schrader. Her appearance in the film, which will have its world premiere at the Venice Film Festival in September, would seem to mark a new level of industry acceptance for Haddish’s manifold talents—though Haddish pushed back on that notion. “People have said, ‘You’ve crossed over, Tiffany,’” says Haddish, who is 41. “But I haven’t. There’s this big film festival coming up and I’m seeing what they’re doing for my counterparts: A lot of them are getting paid to be there. I am not. I am paying to be there. But I’m willing to invest in myself. I’ve always made a return on that investment.”
I saw that you’ve been training to play Florence Griffith Joyner. Did getting ready to play an Olympic athlete make you watch the Olympics any differently? No. I didn’t think any different. I’ve always thought I would play an Olympic athlete at some point in my career because it’s something I’ve always wanted to do. Everything that I have done in my acting career is something that I’d already wanted to do.
In that case, what were you looking to do with “The Card Counter”? I’ve always wanted to be a pimp.
Which, if I’m not mistaken, you have some prior experience with? I kind of was one. Not necessarily the best at it, but I tried. In “The Card Counter,” there’s La Linda, my character. She’s an agent-slash-pimp. She’s a middleman. She’s getting this guy to these poker events and getting him funded. She’s fronting, giving him money to do things. I’m not slanging him, but I’m definitely slanging his talents.
Tiffany Haddish with Oscar Isaac in “The Card Counter.” Focus Features
What was most interesting about working with Paul Schrader? He’s kind of a strange bird. He was like: “Tiffany, when you talk, it sounds like you’re singing. Stop singing.” I’m like, “I’m not singing.” “Yes, you are.” “I don’t sing when I talk.” “You’re definitely singing when you’re talking.” Then I realized, oh wait, I do sing when I talk. That’s just the way I talk. I think it comes from doing standup. So it was a lot of me working on trying not to have the singsong voice. He did talk about the themes of the film and stuff. I’m like, “Why is Oscar’s character doing this [expletive] with this furniture?” He was like: “That’s not your problem to worry about. That’s more on Oscar. Your character, you’re a charmer. But not as charming as you are in real life. Be charming but not too charming.”
And how was Oscar Isaac? He was horrible.
Oh? Nah, he was amazing. That man is so freaking talented, and there’s a little piece of me that was like, Is he prettier than me? This man is gorgeous.
He is an attractive man. Very attractive man. But I’m good at finding something ugly on somebody so that I don’t get too mesmerized. It was difficult with him. I found one thing: He kept wearing this one shirt. I was like, This shirt is so damn ugly. [Laughs.] It wasn’t him. It was the shirt. But he’s a beautiful person. He was so helpful. Like, “Do you want to run lines?” It’s hard to find other actors that are willing to participate and be a team player. For me, anyway, it seems to have been difficult.
Are there ways you’ve learned to get people to give you what you want? I rarely get what I want. God gives me what I need. You know, I wanted to be a cast member on “S.N.L.” Never got that, but I did get to host, and I got an Emmy because of it. So God gives me what I need. What’s the saying? The rejection is my protection. A lot of people can’t handle rejection. But it always pans out for me the way it is supposed to.
What do you want now? I want a lot. I want a nap. I want kids. I don’t want them to come out of my body, but it’s whatever God wants. There’s so many babies that need homes. I want to be a foster parent, but it has been suggested that I don’t do that because if the kid stays with me temporarily, then they could go off and be like, “Tiffany Haddish did this or that to me.” They could be coached into saying that. So in order to protect myself, it should be adoption. But what if I adopt somebody I don’t like? God’s going to give me the right person. I don’t even want a baby. I want somebody who is, like, 5 years old that can talk. I need a talker. “I’m hungry; I’m sleepy now; can you hug me please?” I want that so I’m not trying to read their body language and their cries. I want them talking and also wiping their own ass.
Haddish with Kevin Hart in “Night School” (2018). Universal Pictures/Photofest
Do you think God has a sense of humor? God is the best comedian of all time. Just looking at the animals — God has definitely got a sense of humor, and a little crazy. I was just swimming with sharks, and when I saw sharks having sex, that’s when I knew God is not a woman. God might be a hermaphrodite or something. I mean, no, you’re not allowed to use that word no more. God might be intersex.
How do sharks have sex? It’s very violent. It takes two sharks to take down one female shark, because female sharks are bigger than male sharks. Their skin is thicker because the male sharks bite into their fins and flip them over. This is how you know God is a comedian: Male sharks have two penises. They’re called claspers. They’re pointy and not necessarily comfortable, I’m going to just put it like that. The female shark, if she passes out — she stops breathing, and he flips her over and they drag her along the coral reef. When he’s done, if she doesn’t hurry up and wake up and flip back over, then another shark can come and try to eat her or take advantage of her. You can always tell when a female shark has been mating because her back will be all scratched up. It’s bad. I wanted to start a support group for them.
There’s this ongoing argument in comedy — and the country — over changing standards about who’s allowed to say what. Is that something you think about in relation to your own work? See, the universal symbol for comedy is a banana peel. Somebody is going to slip and get hurt. Think about any joke you ever heard — somebody’s feelings are going to get hurt. So when telling that joke, what is the intention? You can say anything you want. It’s going to be in the intention. The energy behind it. How are you saying it? Why are you saying it? Is it necessary? Ten years from now, will I be OK with it? I might be out here talking about men with small penises. Maybe 15 years from now, I end up with a dude with a really small penis. If he sees this joke, will he be mad about it? Or will he be like, “That’s funny; it’s true,” because of the way I said it?
I’m personally offended by your choice of example. I’m sorry! [Laughs.] But it is what it is.
Haddish in her comedy special “Black Mitzvah” (2019). Lara Solanki/Netflix
Have you ever crossed lines with a joke? Yeah. I have said jokes that hurt my mother’s feelings, my sisters’ feelings. I did my special; I did some jokes about my sister, and when we were doing the edit, I was like, “We got to take that out.” Ten years from now, that’s not going to be funny. In the moment the audience was dying laughing, but what was my intention in telling that joke? It was to get the anger out of my heart, because I was mad. But am I going to be mad forever? No. Is this worth putting out into the whole wide world? No.
There’s recently been a wave of comedy specials that in some way were trying to be formally inventive or high-concept. Like, Tig Notaro’s special was animated, or Bo Burnham’s was sort of a one-man musical. Are you looking around to see what other comedians are doing? And if you are, does it make you think about things you’d like to try? A lot of comedy specials are weird as [expletive]. I watch other people’s stuff, and it’s like you have to find the joke. Sometimes it’s like, Tell me some jokes. I don’t really much concern myself with what other people are doing. It’s more, what would I want to watch?
Have you been thinking about any new material? I’ve been thinking about relationships and how social media has played such a big role in them. Now it’s like: “Oh, he don’t really love you, girl. He not following you on social media.” He follows me to bed, though, so [expletive] you, bitch. You know what I’m saying? People try to make you feel bad because your guy’s not on your Instagram. “Oh, he never likes any of your photos. He doesn’t really care about you.” He just sent me flowers, ho! And they were expensive. So he cares. I realized too that I was starting to get addicted to social media. Looking for the likes. When I was doing “The Carmichael Show,” I was so mad because I wasn’t verified on social media. I’m on this network show, and I can’t get verified? They wanted me to do all this press, and I was like, I don’t want to do no press unless I get a check mark. I made a big stink about it. Jerrod Carmichael, one of the smartest young men I know, said: “Tiffany, it’s not about how many followers you got. It’s about having the right followers. They verify you. Those are the people who are giving you the jobs. Those are the people who are doing the marketing for you. That’s what you need to be worried about.” I was like: “Shut the [expletive] up, Jerrod! I need a [expletive] check mark!” I got a check mark now. I know no one can pretend to be Tiffany. I mean, people still pretend to be me, and that’s sad because people get taken advantage of. I’m like: “Why would I ask you for money? If I didn’t ask you for no money when I was homeless and poor, why would I ask you for money now?” I might not be the richest, but I’m not worried about how my light bill is getting paid.
Haddish with Loretta Devine and Amber Stevens West in a 2016 episode of “The Carmichael Show.” NBC/Photofest
Was there a moment when you realized you didn’t have to worry about money anymore? Probably three months ago.
That’s it? Yeah, three months ago. I bought this house, and I had to get all this stuff installed, and I was just like, ugh, that’s going to cost too much money. Then my business manager was like, “Tiffany, you could retire tomorrow, and at the amount of money you spend every month, you will live comfortably for the next 45 years, even with inflation.” And I was like, “I did the numbers, and I feel like I’m not going to be OK.” She was like: “Stop. Get out of that mentality of broke-girl-on-the-verge-of-being-homeless, living check to check. Because you’re not living check to check.” I’m like: “I know. I know I have abundance. I am successful. I am prosperous. But still there is no need to be wasteful.” And she’s like, “You can afford it.” And then I was like, “Let me look over all the financials” — which I do every month — and I’m like: Wow, she’s right. I spend very little. I probably spend on myself about $2,500 a month. When it comes to my family, because I pay for 24-hour nurses for my grandma, for my mom, the food and all these things, then that’s ridiculous amounts of money. I’m like, Are they even worth it? [Laughs.] But they are. They’re worth it.
Have you, like a lot of other folks, had arguments with family members about them getting vaccinated? I’m not talking about that. I mean, my family, half of them are getting the vaccine; half of them don’t want it. They think the government’s trying to take them down. Then they’re like, “Tiffany, did you get the vaccine?” I know that I’m influential, and they copy me. My cousin and my auntie now have the same color hair as me and cut all their hair off like me. They’re following me, and I don’t want to be responsible. Just because I made a decision to do something shouldn’t be the reason they make that same decision. I always tell everybody: “Do your own research and do what feels right for you. Don’t copy me. Like, I have certain allergies and my own personal issues that are different than yours. So do your research.” And they’re like, “Well, what is the research you did?” No! You are not about to cheat off me! Do your own due diligence. I mean, my auntie, she was going to this hair stylist that I was going to all the time, and the girl burned her hair out. And I’m like, “Why did you go to her in the first place?” She said, “Because you said she knows her stuff.” And I was like, “Yeah, for me, not for you. I don’t let her put chemicals in my hair.”
Is there an argument that you should be encouraging people to copy you if that’s what it takes for them to get vaccinated? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe they have allergies.
I’m not even sure what my question is here, but I want to ask you about Eritrea. Do you feel like you made any mistakes in how you’ve talked about the situation there? It’s a dictatorship, and you’ve seemed reluctant to criticize the country on those grounds. Here’s my thing when it comes to that country: It holds a special place in my heart because that’s where my father is from. Do I feel like I’ve made any mistakes? I’m learning, and in learning you do make mistakes. I feel like my mistakes are of ignorance about a subject matter. I love when people decide they want to teach me things. Then I’m like: “OK, that’s great. I see your point of view, but what about this thing here? And then what about that? Can you break this down to me?” Which pisses them off. I’m a student who does research, and I’m going to ask a lot of questions. Then you use your discernment to decide whether you feel this way about it or that way about it. At this point, I’m still very confused. That’s the beauty of being a human. You get to constantly learn.
Haddish (right) with Regina Hall, Jada Pinkett Smith and Queen Latifah in “Girls Trip” (2017). Michele K. Short/Universal Pictures, via Everett Collection
Can I ask what you learned as a person from the experience of having a real moment after “Girls Trip”? What did that show you about life that you hadn’t seen before? I never knew exhaustion like that before. I didn’t know that you can have the help that I eventually had, like having an assistant. I have a hard time trusting people, so I didn’t know I was capable of allowing someone that much access to me. I didn’t know that they had jets like that: private jets with actual food on them that you like. I didn’t know people would give you clothes to wear and take them back. So many Indian givers. I don’t know if I’m allowed to say that word anymore.
Probably not. And why is it Indian givers? Why is it not white givers? Caucasian givers? I didn’t realize there were so many Caucasian givers. They give you something and then they’re like, “Hey, I want that back.” Wait, I thought you were giving this to me! They even want swimming suits back. That’s nasty and no. I’m buying it, because you’re not going to have anything my vagina was in. Or that was in my vagina. And when they try to take the Spanx back? Why? I’ll pay for it! “That’s the only one we made.” “This is the only one? Go make another one.” “Well, it’s a thousand dollars.” Fine. I will keep my coochie juices for a thousand dollars, please and thank you.
You’ve talked before about studying older comedians. Do you do the same with dramatic actors? No. I just go off of me and my dramatic ass.
Why study for comedy but not for drama? Because comedy is more universal and more tapping into people’s souls. The goal is to make them laugh out loud. You’re getting their brains to create serotonin. When you’re doing drama you’re not trying to get somebody to create serotonin. You are depending on the character you’re playing either pulling at their heart strings or making them hate you. That, to me, is very different than comedy. Drama is more me when I’m on my period. I got that.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity from two conversations.
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